Many times, I've heard heard musicians complain about the scene for local, original music. Really, though, I don't hear much said about exactly what needs to be changed. I had been thinking about this for a while when I read a blog written on Chaos Follows Order's myspace page. Their blog was written when they became angry that they were not selected for KLAQ's Loco Fest, while a number of cover bands were so selected. I didn't agree with everything they said, but most of it had a ring of truth.
In this article, I include CFO's blog, the comments of a number of people whose comments I solicited for this article, and some apropos back-and-forth that took place in a soon-to-be-released interview I did with Ryan Rosoff, as well as my own plan for fixing the scene.
Here is the blog, (copied with their permission) of Chaos Follows Order:
Tuesday, November 06, 2007
I love my ep music scene
Current mood: angry
I just don't understand why I still continue to support this town when it comes to the "music scene". This town has always been and probably always will be Cover Band capital of the world. I'm sorry, I'm probably going to piss off some people by writing this, but it's reached the point where I just don't give a f*ck about it anymore, and I'm going to say what a lot of people might be afraid to say.
Don't get me wrong, I'm a little disappointed my band didn't get picked to perform at this weekend's Locofest, which is being hosted by KLAQ. We tried out and didn't get picked....plain and simple. I'm OK with that. But that's not what I'm bitter about. What I want to know is, how can the Q go and promote this Locofest show and state, "Showcasing El Paso's talent". I'm sorry, but last time I checked, "talent" included, or at least to me, writing and producing your own material, regardless if others liked it or not. When I think of talent, I think of someone or a group of people sitting down, collaborating, and coming up with ideas of writing their own original music. Why? Because its THEIR OWN music.......not a group of people sitting down and learning someone else's music.....and getting paid for it at that.
Please!.....anyone can do that. I would know, because I for one, used to be in a cover band. Believe me, I had my fun! But, when it came to shows and playing with original bands, they just didn't mix. To me, it was almost embarrassing playing with other original bands, because here's a band who worked just as hard as we did, but with their own material, not someone else's.
It just pisses me off that this is the "best" El Paso has to offer when it comes to the local music scene. Don't get me wrong, there are going to be some kick-ass original bands playing this Saturday, some of them are really good friends of ours and would probably agree with what I am having to write, but I believe El Paso is really missing out on a lot of other great local original bands that won't be there this Saturday. I'm not even talking about my band, either. I can care less if you like my band's music or not. I don't play it to please you. If you like it, you like it, if you don't...you don't.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion, just like they had about my band.....so I have mine. Mine is that I will never support El Paso's music scene, especially when the Q, their buddies, their influences and self-consciences that refuse them to change and break away from the norm that this town has become, are running it. El Paso will never be up there when it comes to the "music scene" like Austin, Dallas, Phoenix are, where you step into a bar and hear live music by someone or group and you've never heard their music before. How refreshing is that!
Another thing that is pathetic is that an original band in El Paso won't get paid for crap when they play a show. I think, out of the countless shows we've played in El Paso, we got paid for two of them, yet we play one show in Las Cruces and got paid more in one night than all the shows combined here in El Paso. And a cover band, playing someone else's music at that (and I can't stress that enough!!!) walk away from a show with $250 minimum. That's pathetic...this town is pathetic. Sure its easy money, but if it was worth it, don't you think I'd still be in my cover band?? To me, being in a cover band is like winning second place at a music contest.....and you were the only band to perform. Unfortunately, with the local scene we have, I get that same feeling being in an original band. Believe me, I know I sound bitter that we didn't get picked......but it's not that we didn't get picked, I'm bitter at who was picked, and whether or not they were original or not.
Like I said, there is a lot El Paso is missing out on. If you really want to go see El Paso's talent, go to Zeppelin's any given night, Chic's any given night as well. Hell, even go to Joker's or Texas Lonestar Lounge. I used to wonder why in the hell would a band like the Mars Volta (those guys graduated from my alma mater El Paso High) say they are from Los Angeles and not El Paso.......as a musician.....I now know why, and I don't blame them. These guys are one of many bands to "make it" but ask yourself "How many times you've heard them on the Q??" El Paso's OWN, and they don't even play them, maybe on Q connected, but whoopty freakin do, a whole whooping 2-3 hour show on Sunday night (when no one even listens) devoted to new and local rock.
So, if I pissed you off with my little rant, don't get mad at me. Question yourself if you think I'm right, or if I'm.......well....right? If you agree with what I had to say, then get off your butts and go to show, and I don't mean go to the "fad" bar that EVERYONE goes and a cover band happens to be playing there, I mean go on a weekday, or find a show on the weekend and go hear a band you've never heard of or never heard their music!! Some bands you might like a lot, some bands you might think are really bad.....but at least you can appreciate what they are doing, because its their own music and it really came from their heart. When you realize this, you'll truly understand what talent is. And when this town and the people that run the "music scene" realize that too, maybe El Paso will be up there some day with the likes of Austin, Dallas, Phoenix, etc. and maybe bands won't be so embarrased to say they are from here.
I'm done.....for now
Now, I include the comments of several people heavily involved in the scene: Adrian Jimenez (Sociopath Promotions), Phil Candelaria (Pony Productions), Chris (Nine 1 Five Promotions), J-sin (13th Level Booking), Bundy (So Not Psyched Studios), and Mike (Abnik)
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I think the biggest thing is that artists in El Paso are a bit too happy with being a big fish in a little pond. It seems to me, bands draw 50 people one time and they want to somehow ask for $1000 (overexagerated) just to play a show. Also, the saturation of cover bands in the city!!!! Cover bands charging $400 kinda kills any potential for original music to do anything.
Adrian Jimenez (Sociopath Promotions)
http://www.myspace.com/sociopathpromotions
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I think it's due to a lack of support. I mean, people do not even go to support a local show thats only 5 bucks that has like 6 to 7 bands on it. There are not enough venues that care about the music scene in El Paso to make a difference as well. Then, the promoters or other people feel they need to compete for shows. I don't remember the last time I had to cancel a show, but there are always people asking me the day of every one of the shows I have brought if the show is happening, because someone told them it had gotten cancelled. We sabatoge each other so there is no unity in our scene. I don't know how one person can fix anything. Its going to take a collective few at the very least to get anything going in the right direction.
Phil Candelaria, Pony Productions
http://www.myspace.com/ponyproductions13
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"The Problem with the El Paso Music Scene is simple. Work Ethic. Everyone wants to become a star overnight, and they don't understand that they have to put in a lot of work. All the artists in El Paso want everything to be given to them, and most have huge egos... why? No one has ever heard of most of these artists, but because they have a few friends that follow them around everywhere, they think that they are untouchable and don't have to do anything anymore. Well, they are wrong. As an artist, they need to put their egos aside and play every gig they can get. They need to record every single track they possibly can, and they need to burn as many CDs as they possibly can (and not sell a cd with 5 songs on it for 10 freakin dollars either; they are not Kanye West... yet!). There are many artists and bands here that have potential to go long ways, but they need to work, and work together. It doesn't matter if they play for 1 person or 100 people, they need to give full effort. They are only as good as they put themselves out for, and people like us can only do so much, because it doesn't matter if we splatter your name all around El Paso. If no one has heard your music, they won't care.
Fred, Chris (Nine 1 Five Promotions)
http://www.myspace.com/joeblows565
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Big thing next to the lack of good venues is lack of knowledge. No one pays attention when the show's coming. They forget the date and go...we'll catch 'em next time they play El Paso.
Jason (13th Level Booking)
http://www.myspace.com/13thlevelbp
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Well first of all, it seems like the only people that help each other out are only the same bands..for example..hogging up all the shows..how many times can the same a band open up for all the out of town bands?..It's alway the same bands...my conclusion is let other bands open up...
2. There's a lot of musicians here that don't get the help they need...esp. charging in the studio by the hour..I'm against that, because as a musician, knowing your time is limited..I get rushed on how I want my sound to be, or if I want to correct something, it's too late..I need to pay more for that.(that suxs)
3.Taking sides...It's like if the main bands don't like you, they wont work with you.... you have to kiss ass to get help?
4. And the most thing that bothers me is..some bands don't appreciate what we do.......we take care of everything for those bands..all they have to do is nothing but party and get drunk and still want more.....they don't have to deal with the owner of the bar, flyering, promoting,,,nothing. We do all that.....
We are giving everyone what they want!
I think it's really if Chuco Town is ready for what they want?......a music scene....everybody needs to get involved...let everyone be part of the change...... we need to get rid of the haters.and make sure people really know what where doing? Prove to the people we are not what the haters say we are......We are here for El Paso...To make Chuco Town musicians be proud of their home town..and put El Paso on the map....
Bundy (So Not Psyched Studio)
http://www.myspace.com/sonotpsychedstudios
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It is true that a lot of musicians are asking, "What is wrong with the Original Music scene here in EL Paso". And honestly there are a lot of factors that come to play in this. It's not that El Paso DOESN'T support the Original music scene, its just that it all comes down to Self-Promotion. If you promote yourself well, "they" will come". Also, El Paso isn't all that big of a city, and there really isn't a lot of variety in Music. With that said, a lot of Original Bands are coming out having shows, again, without any self-promotion, expecting the whole world to show up, and who well.... how can I put it nicely......quite frankly are not that great!!!! That right there is partly the reason why people don't go out to see more Original Acts. Lastly, another big reason for all this is, a lot of Bar and Club owners are NOT supporting the Original Scene. If you're a "Cover Band", you're guaranteed a show. If you're an Original act, they won't even bother, and just say, "No, thanks." Don't get me wrong, a few bars and clubs are great in supporting, but not enough venues are getting in on this to support. There is a lot of talent in our Beautiful City, the problem is, a lot of people don't know it!!!
Mike (Abnik)
http://www.myspace.com/abnikrocks
I recently did an interview with Ryan Rosoff of Little King. Aside from just coming out with their fourth CD, Legacy of Fools, Ryan operated a publicity company for several years, and has marketed Little King's CDs world-wide.
I include here the parts that are relevant to this discussion:
EPMS: What needs to be changed in the scene? One of the best answers I hear is that the public is to blame, for not supporting the scene enough. I'm even ready to go after that. I've been trying to do that, between EPMS and my cable show, by getting the word out about the local talent. As I said, what I get for my efforts is mostly resistance. The most depressing part of it all is, while lots of people say the scene here sucks, nobody can even describe the solution.
Ryan: In reference to the local music scene, I am becoming more of a realist and less of an idealist every day, every year. I was doing the things that you are talking about back in the 90’s and then again in the early part of this millennium. The one thing I was never able to do is get people to support live, original music. It is a cultural thing as well as a lack of talent that makes it such an uphill battle. I don’t know that it will ever change; I hope like hell that you are successful, just the same.
The biggest problem is that El Paso does not support live original music, does not buy local CD’s except in limited numbers at shows, and the bands are basically unprofessional and ignorant to the realities of the business (How many times have you complained about bands being too slow to tear down and set up, not having any stage presence, having vocals out of tune, etc.? How many decent local press releases have you seen? How many bands are registered with ASCAP or BMI, BDS and Mediabase, etc.? 10% tops even know what I am talking about. That number is so much higher in other cities it’s not even funny.)
The solution is to first educate bands, then make it profitable for bands to play their own stuff with a hope that they can eventually get on the road and make a name for themselves outside of El Paso. An outside-in approach, if you will. Play in Tucson and Albuquerque and Austin and Phoenix, have some good press and radio support in some of those cities, then come back and shame the institutions here into supporting those bands as well. Kind of like, If I can get support in those cities that are bigger than El Paso, why won’t you local people support a local product?” The bottom line is that El Paso kids may support the flavor of the month, but there is little brand loyalty other than maybe Lylah, Sparta, and a couple other exceptions. And adults would much rather hear a cover band slogging through the Q’s top 5 list with some Metal thrown in for good measure.
EPMS: Hey, I like that idea: I can be the booking agent for these bands in a few nearby cities. I can get to know the venues in 6-8 nearby cities, and regularly take El Paso bands to these places. Make it easier for the bands, and encourage more bands to do it, at least on my little circuit.
Ryan: Now the venues in different cities…that is a very feasible idea that is long overdue. Get with me some time and I can give you my contacts and experiences in each city... We used to do Deming, Socorro, Silver City, Albuquerque, Santa Fe/Madrid, and then come home. It was a great “rookie circuit” so that bands could get some road experience, publicity (in those towns it is EASY), and after 5 shows in 6 nights, you are tight as shit. Then play a home show in El Paso and show those people what you are made out of…
Charles, the point is that most musicians in El Paso lack the vision and professional approach necessary to make inroads into the city’s mainstream. You and I can do it, but can the average dude on the street? I wish they would; it would be good for the scene.
EPMS: What can be done about the apathy of El Paso crowds? This is part of what I have tried to do with EPMS and my cable show. I figured, maybe I can make the bands real to people by interviewing them, etc. Maybe do a really good cable show, and build up the audience for that...
Ryan: Charles, people here are generally very lazy and not much into things that come from El Paso. The only way to be popular here is to hype the shit out of yourself and pretend that you are bigger than you really are. Or, conquer the hinterlands first and then come back to EP and say "They love us in San Antonio; we have a record deal, what the hell is wrong with you people?" Again, this is a battle that to me is un-winnable. The only way for a band to truly be successful (financially, anyway) is to GET OUT OF DODGE.
EPMS: You said that El Pasoans don't want to pay cover to see a show. Well, let's change that: original band shows should be no cover, like cover band shows. I think I am going to start weekly shows at different places, maybe for no money at all at first. I have the PA; I'll pay the bands $10 each, plus the promotion. As I demonstrate that I can consistently bring the crowds, I'll gradually start bumping up the money I expect for each show. I could look around now for places that would pay me $50 or so for such a show, but I need the crowds to be decent from day one. Maybe that isn't so hard; maybe I'll start at $50. Anyhow, I'll go for a given part of town, rather than spreading my shows around. In a short time, none of the venues in that area will try to charge cover; they'll all do cash deals. From there, I'll get the promoters to come on board and do their shows that way. Of course, if there is a special band, maybe there can be cover for just that show.
This will depend on the promoter (me, at first) being able to build a reputation for the show, and having decent bands. The crowd will be able to trust that the show will be decent, even if they don't know the bands.
When this gets established, we'll have grown the crowd that comes out to see original bands.
Ryan: You are overestimating the talent and its ability to organize in El Paso, my friend, as well as the loyalty of the crowds. It is an absolutely sound plan, but this is an anomalous music scene. I support you, and I will do what I can to help.
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EPMS: I put locals on my road band shows in accordance with what they've done for me. Assuming they can play, of course. If locals won't play my local shows, I'm not going to give them the big shows. It's going to shock the shit out of people when I put a local band that nobody's heard of with one of these Balloon Fest bands at the Coliseum, but I'll do it.
Ryan: Yes, by all means bring in bigger shows and put locals on as support. That is a huge part of building a scene. I just think that it is very difficult to pretend that a scene of maybe 200 people that would consistently make live, original music as their top choice for entertainment is a scene of 5,000 people like it is in Austin, Seattle, etc. I really believe that we are dealing with a cultural abnormality
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EPMS: You said, "I wish there were a few good labels here that would front the cash for this kind of thing (putting out a CD). It really takes about 5k to get a great recording, mastering and artwork."
You mean, put up the money, but have a way to get it back? Could this be done profitably?
Ryan: Yes, it could. $5,000 is basically 500 CD’s sold to recoup your recording, etc. expenditures, then a 50/50 split with the bands based on them playing a certain amount of shows yearly; you should be doing some radio and print/’net promo, advancing some tour support, etc. A true joint venture is hard to achieve, though, when you are dealing with bands that are basically broke from the get-go. It isn’t hard to sell 500 CD’s if you have a decent product, and if you are a decent A&R person, you should HAVE a good disc. If not, then get out of the business!
EPMS: How can I fill this need, as far as being a local label? What things should I do? I am not that much into money; I want to impact things. Set up a studio, sign bands to 2-3 record contracts, sell those CDs, manage the bands' tours? How many bands are worth the effort here? 5? 15?
Ryan: Do not get into the studio business! There are way better ways to do things correctly, from the business side, and not have to invest all that money. How many bands? Maybe 5 that I have heard and seen in the last 5 years…I think that number has decreased since I started playing here in 1995. And only 2 of those would be willing and able to tour, which at the beginning of their careers, is probably the only thing that matters. As a label, you need to make sure the band has a manager/booking agent, publishing is handled, etc. Indie labels should only be responsible for distribution and promotion and MAYBE the recording itself. How many bands have all that stuff together here and don’t suck? Maybe 5 in 5 years.
Finally, I present my plan. This is mostly stuff that I plan to do myself to fix things:
1) Convert original shows to be no cover, like the cover bands.
This will increase the crowds. Also, all ages.
2) Get back a cable show, and make it good enough that people will watch it.
3) Put together compilation CDs of local bands, and pass them out for free. Not
just at shows, but in the music stores, etc. I plan on starting this in March
or April of this year.
4) Arrange tours for local bands, so we can get as many bands as possible
doing some kind of touring. Part of this is to give bands a path to follow
to success. I will develop relationships with venues in the cities between
here and Houston/Dallas, plus New Mexico, Arizona, and California.
5) Double the major shows that come, and put locals on these shows as much
as possible.
6) Raise the quality of the shows. Outlaw big guitar/bass amps in my shows.
Make bands get on/off the stage quickly, and always have their reserve
guitar ready for when they break a string. Insist that they learn some showmanship.
7) Develop an Austin City Limits-type show from here. Put some local bands on it
- maybe once every third show.
8) Make it cheap to record.
9) Finally, and this is the tough one, develop a pride among El Pasoans in
their city as a music center. Like people in Austin and Seattle have.
The reason I say this is the tough one is, El Paso is great for two things
(Juarez and history), and hardly anybody here knows anything about those things.
I'm going to change that? Am I crazy?
BTW, when I say "I," I know I will be getting people to help move things along. There are some examples of El Pasoans making important changes in music, particularly Phil Candelaria. He has done a lot to turn El Paso into a center for hardcore music, and to make great bands want to come here.
